Question: Would you buy a less powerful, but more durable engine?

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 07/14/2017 at 17:27 • Filed to: None

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There are a few engines that have bulletproof reputations for durability but because of the nature of their long lived mission they aren’t the most powerful engines around. Im thinking along the lines of an AMC 4.0, or A Ford 460. Something completely understressed and overbuilt. Now obviously these are terrible fun engines but they certainly have their place in the market.

Modern engines are, by and large, WAY more reliable than most engines were in the era’s that brought us overbuilt/understressed motors and they are lighter, smaller, more fuel efficient and powerful. That being said they are also much higher strung, and can be quite a bit more costly to repair.

So the question comes: Would you buy an iron pig of engine if it were an option today? Lets give it the benefit of the doubt that you can get ~55 hp/liter out of an engine designed to rev low and last long (consequently it means a nice flat torque curve as well) so a 2.0 would get you 110 hp, but over a broad, low part of the rev range and last forever and be cheap to repair...its also the base engine, so its less expensive than the 1.6T with 160 hp. Would you consider it?

What about in something like a wrangler, would you buy a JK or new JL with the old AMC 4.0 but uprated with crossflow heads, updated fuel management and variable valve timing. it would still only get about 230 hp, which is down considerably to the current 3.6, but last forever and be generally trouble free?

Sure its easy to say yes to old cars with those engines because you want an old ca rto have a reliable engine and they are cheap, but what about new?

Is there even a place anymore for non-commercial users for overbuilt/understressed engines?

itschrome > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:32

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Soo your asking if id by a gm v8? Yeah sure.

HammerheadFistpunch > itschrome 07/14/2017 at 17:34

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only it doesn’t have active cylinder management, or direct injection.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:38

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That’s exactly what I did! I got rid of my ‘89 with a 22R for an ‘80 with the 20R... Being in much better condition, looking goodly, and having 100k miles less had something to do with it BUT STILL. The 20R is absolutely immortal.

WilliamsSW > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:39

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In a sense, I kinda did that with my last new car - - I only shopped NA engines (still scarred by the one GM turbo I owned 25 years ago), and ended up with a Lexus. Not very Oppo, but oh well. Not sure I’ll do it again, though, because I want more fun - although I still don’t want turbo lag, so who knows?

MonkeePuzzle > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:43

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yes.

bought a 1.8L impreza engine instead of the 2.2 or 2.5 because of durability and fuel economy

crowmolly > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:44

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GM 3800.

I am convinced that GM powertrain realized that they made a mistake with it- that it will soldier on forever. So the 11th hour fix was to bolt it to shitty transaxles.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:45

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All I’m hearing is a V8 truck motor. Maybe not a Ford 5.0, but the Hemi and LS are almost exactly what you’re describing.

Berang > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:48

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I kind of wonder if modern engines, generally speaking, are more stressed than those of the past. Sure, modern engines tend to rev higher than a lot of old designs, but these days gearboxes also have more ratios, overdrive, etc. Also since cars are generally more aerodynamic, the loads on the engine at high speeds must surely be lower than in the past. On the other hand, the charging system in modern cars requires a lot more power than in the past...

I’m sure somebody in the know could comment on bearing surface areas, piston speeds, etc.

nermal > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:51

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Sounds like the gas V8s offered in current HD pickups. The engines are capable of more powahhhh, and do produce more in other applications.

I think it depends on the rest of the vehicle. A Jeep or pickup? Sure, de-tune for reliability. A GTI? No.

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:52

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LM7 5.3 or the 4.8 (idk the rpo code). Iron block and aluminum heads. If it has VVT or DOD, Texas Speed sells kits to delete them.

Wacko > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:56

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I’m thinking that a modern amc 4.0 would have more torque than a pentastar

Future next gen S2000 owner > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 17:56

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Given the relative longevity of modern motors, 200K is easily reachable with routine maintenance, I wouldn’t buy it. I’m good with motors as they are.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 18:09

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My dad has an FJ55, still just fine.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 18:11

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If it weren’t for the awful fuel economy, I’d say bring back the BMW M30 and use it everywhere.

ranwhenparked > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 18:14

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If we’re talking a straight six, of course I would.

CRider > Wacko 07/14/2017 at 18:15

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I’m not sure if ‘modern’ and ‘AMC’ have ever been used in a sentence together.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 18:29

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Definitely. If modern engines last so long now, imagine how long they’d last if they were overbuilt.

Kiltedpadre > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 18:38

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So a Mustang with a 300 I-6? I’ll take one!

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 18:50

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Fun fact - The Citroen 2CV’s engine was tested for 1000 hours at full throttle...something equivalent to 50,000mi/80,000km or so.

602cc air-cooled flat-twin with 29hp at 5750rpm....meets your less powerful but durable requirements.

10/10, would own a 2CV :P

CRider > WilliamsSW 07/14/2017 at 18:53

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A 25 year old GM turbo? What did you own, a Grand National?

WilliamsSW > CRider 07/14/2017 at 18:55

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I WISH!!! No, it was much, much, much worse. J-car + turbo = shit. A 1990 Sunbird SE convertible, with a 5 speed.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > WilliamsSW 07/14/2017 at 19:03

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A Lexus is very Oppo. Just about any car *can* be Oppo. My Lexus has 312,000 miles on it. I call that Oppo worthy.

WilliamsSW > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 07/14/2017 at 19:08

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A Lexus *can* be Oppo- - yours is worthy. At least mine isn’t an ES/RX or that hybrid. :)

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > WilliamsSW 07/14/2017 at 19:26

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My parents have a RX400h. The anti-Oppo.... until you read the odometer has 345,000 miles on the original battery.

Die-Trying > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 19:40

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i am in the middle of rounding up parts for this right now. i bought some parts that i thought were something else, REAL good deal. its a smallblock chevy 400 block(4.155 bore), but with an updated crank. the crank happens to be a 3.335 inch stroke. oddball stuff. the engine comes up at 361 cubes. was set up as a sprint car engine originally. the engine is designed to be able to live to see 10000 rpm on a regular basis. they dont make much engine torque, but make their power in the upper rpm range. they are capable of 750-ish hp. everything in the guts are custom order,part of the fun of putting someone elses project back together. its a spend the money once and be done with it.

more than likely i’ll never need to pull it past 10k rpm, but it should hold together should i ask it to. its getting a heavy emphasis on lightweight parts. the flywheel and clutch weigh TOGETHER in at 7lbs.

its going to go in the 4x4 model T that i am putting together.

(someone elses engine)

this is going to be a fiasco, of the best kind. spend the money once right?.........

CRider > WilliamsSW 07/14/2017 at 19:45

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It’s a wonder you weren’t turned off cars altogether after experiencing that. You should buy a turbocharged C7 to make up for it.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > HammerheadFistpunch 07/14/2017 at 20:06

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Only if I was buying a big truck or van.

Cash Rewards > nermal 07/14/2017 at 20:40

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Former GTI owner here. Could’ve used a little more reliability.

HammerheadFistpunch > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 07/14/2017 at 22:25

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That’s a different angle I hadn’t considered

WilliamsSW > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 07/14/2017 at 22:27

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That’s awesome! Your family must take good care of their cars.

I joke about mine(GS350) but it is a good car, and a great highway cruiser.

WilliamsSW > CRider 07/14/2017 at 22:33

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Nice! I’m sure it’s out of my price range, but that’s awesome.

The Sunbird was a lot of fun to drive, despite oodles of torque steer. But I don’t think turbos and head gaskets are supposed to be maintenance items.

I managed to get 5 seconds behind the wheel of both an ATS-V and a CTS-V this weekend - those cars could get me back to GM easily.

HammerheadFistpunch > Wacko 07/14/2017 at 22:35

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Shouldn’t be too hard

HammerheadFistpunch > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 07/14/2017 at 22:46

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What about a Bentley 6 and 3/4 liter?

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > crowmolly 07/14/2017 at 23:13

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i knew 3 people with 3800s. 2 lasted forever with squakey interir plastic being a bigger letdown. the third (bonneville supercharged) was reliable till handed off to a coed that we all assume ran it on 89.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > WilliamsSW 07/14/2017 at 23:28

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The GS350 is one of my favorite Lexus cars ever. We end up buying customers cars with a ton of miles already and then we add on hahah. My Lexus almost has 100k since but same deal.

WilliamsSW > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 07/14/2017 at 23:35

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The GS has been the Lexus I’d want from each generation. And it’s been perfect through 2+years. It’s not super exciting to drive, but it’s very competent. And a great road trip car, between the seats, ride, stereo, etc.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > HammerheadFistpunch 07/15/2017 at 00:17

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Ok or that. Although I feel that was more about smoothness than longevity.

SantaRita > HammerheadFistpunch 07/15/2017 at 08:04

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Can I put in something lighter? I don’t mind losing HP, if the dynamics are still ok.

Reliability aside, an analog is the diesel option. I loved the Opel I rented with one.

I do think you could market a heavy duty engine to the commuter set, sort of like a Honda HF... but HD.

As an aside, marketing it would be a nightmare...selling both directions it’s the weak one or implies the rest of your line I junk...

SantaRita > Cash Rewards 07/15/2017 at 08:07

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Mk?

Cash Rewards > SantaRita 07/15/2017 at 08:13

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VI

Speed > HammerheadFistpunch 07/15/2017 at 10:40

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Absolutely, especially with trucks. I’d take a Toyota with a 22re or 3rz over a V6 any day.

benjrblant > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 07/17/2017 at 12:04

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Those things are wonderful.

benjrblant > HammerheadFistpunch 07/17/2017 at 12:05

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Yes. I just wish the mpgs were a bit more reasonable.

HammerheadFistpunch > benjrblant 07/17/2017 at 12:10

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give and take.

benjrblant > HammerheadFistpunch 07/17/2017 at 12:12

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I thought the give was less power. Now you’re telling me it’s less power AND circa 1920 fuel economy?

HammerheadFistpunch > benjrblant 07/17/2017 at 12:13

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Yup. Well truthfully most of the mileage tank comes from the rest of the driveline. Im sure you know how little of your 212 hp is making it to the road.

benjrblant > HammerheadFistpunch 07/17/2017 at 12:15

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Yes. Thanks for reminding me that at 5700ft only 90 horses are finding their way to the pavement.

HammerheadFistpunch > benjrblant 07/17/2017 at 12:17

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Thats no exaggeration either. I put my trucks weight into the torque app which uses acceleration and weight to calculate wheel power, and the best I’ve done is 112 hp. In turbo cars its been pretty close to what I would consider accurate.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > HammerheadFistpunch 07/17/2017 at 12:18

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You basically said SBC.

Yes I would.

HammerheadFistpunch > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/17/2017 at 12:19

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As I was typing it I realized that the SBC fits in this category pretty well, though generally speaking they aren’t as “overbuilt” as they used to be. Tolerances are much tighter now and weight has been shed at the alter of efficiency.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > HammerheadFistpunch 07/17/2017 at 12:26

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Actually, thinking it over again...

The SBC (sticking with gen 1 and 2) fits in the general sense, in that they are pretty damn reliable and generally chuck out less power than they could. However it was generally the higher-end, more powerful, less reliable engine when it was offered, with the 4.3 V6 being the bulletproof underpowered option.

HammerheadFistpunch > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 07/17/2017 at 12:30

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The 4.3 was a beast of a motor. Thats kinda of the idea I’m after. Understressed and meant to just chug on forever.